Burqa Ban

burqa

After Obama can out as the Burqa Buddy, here is some refreshing talk from French President Nicolas Sarkozy:

PARIS (AP) — President Nicolas Sarkozy said the Muslim burqa would not be welcome in France, calling the full-body religious gown a sign of the "debasement" of women.
In the first presidential address to parliament in 136 years, Sarkozy faced critics who fear the burqa issue could stigmatize France's Muslims and said he supported banning the garment from being worn in public.
"In our country, we cannot accept that women be prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity," Sarkozy said to extended applause at the Chateau of Versailles, southwest of Paris.
"The burqa is not a religious sign, it's a sign of subservience, a sign of debasement — I want to say it solemnly," he said. "It will not be welcome on the territory of the French Republic."

----------------------------------------
Femisex has written on this, how the veils that women cover themselves with are so often the “choice” of belonging to their culture or getting kicked the F out. I can not tell you how odd it is to sit next to or move among women in what I can only think of as death shroud getup. I gotta say, I’m really liking the honest talk of Sarkozy on this subject.

Comments

PC FAIL: American

PC FAIL: American Prospect

Ultimately, though, there's no evidence that most burqa-clad French women regard themselves as oppressed. "There are women who wear burqas who are not being forced by anyone, who think that form of modesty is appropriate for who they want to be in the world," says Scott. "It's hard to distinguish between them and those who are being forced." And so in the end, a ban putatively passed to further women's rights could instead impinge on their freedom, and take from them something they value. Even worse, it could lead to those in the most fundamentalist of households being trapped inside their homes altogether. It would be cruel to limit these women's options in the name of liberation, even if their clothes are a rebuke to the secularism that the French rightly hold sacred.

Nationalism can be racist and she says feminism can be a tool of nationalism but Michelle Goldberg would probably not like wearing a burka everywhere she goes. I wouldn't want a daughter to see women wearing burkas every day because it sets a poor example. If I saw women wearing burkas every day, I'd want them to get out.

Hi Donna-- Yes Goldberg is a

Hi Donna-- Yes Goldberg is a fool. House negreos often did not see themselves as oppressed either. woppe to do!
This is just more of liberal media giving voice to the select women who will work against women's rights in this society and others.

These women who are willing to hurt women for the sake of their careers is sad!
Of course Missy Goldberg is in love with Obama and like his other female minions in the media will do what they must to put positive spin on Obama's stupid anti-female words.
sigh!

Kinda like women who watch

Kinda like women who watch sexist movies or porn with the boyfriends don't FEEL oppressed. It's a slippery slope.

I'm absolutely appalled by

I'm absolutely appalled by what I read at Feministe and Feministing. I mean just look at that picture -- that is absolutely disgusting and dehumanizing! It makes me sick to look at it. I know the ban raises many questions about enforcement and such, but how can any woman not rejoice at the thought of banning a burqa. And fuck cultural sensitivity! It's time to call a spade a spade and stop compromising women for fear of being politically incorrect.

You might be interested in

You might be interested in Clarissa's Box on moral relativism

http://donnadarko.wordpress.com/2009/06/24/when-pc-is-dishonest/

Third Wavers WANT Muslim

Third Wavers WANT Muslim women to wear burkas whether Muslim women WANT to or not because it makes THEM feel PC.

I'll be impressed when Courtney et al marries her boyfriend. She'll learn what I know which is that comms of color DO NOT CARE AT ALL about sexism/feminism and scream "patriarchy" soon enough.

I just posted FemiSex's

I just posted FemiSex's comments on the anaology to smoking bans in public and burqa bans in public on Feministe and here is what that clearly uninformed writer has to say in response:

Taggle: Smoking is banned from (some) public places because it poses a health risk to non-smokers. The same can hardly be argued about the burqa.~Jill of Feministe

Jill, is not a very bright gal, a gal who can see down the line. After New York put its smoking bans in effect guess what: not only did non-smokers benefit, but smokers quit smoking in record numbers and heart attack rates drop significantly--27% in one city. This has been replicated in other cities. Femisex is fully on track here. Smokers and non-smokers benefitted.
So banning the Burqa will have very good down the line effect for women. Period. Cultural acceptance of smoking lead to bad public health effects. Public acceptance of female shrouding and debasement will have bad public health effects, mental and physical. Jill has little understanding of the ill effect of cultural acceptance of sub-human status.

Jill is a lot like Courtney Martin of Feministing,--too busy rebeling against her mommy to be a feminist.
Keep kicking butt and taking names Femisex, you are fully on target.

Yeah, I read the Feministing

Yeah, I read the Feministing response and thought thought to myself, these 3rd wave twits are so self-congratulatory of their impeccable understanding of other cultures that I am willing to sponsor them to attend a one year Feministing internship in Afghanistan.

I would have had some intellectual understanding of the "everything must be legal even if it sucks" reasoning a la the Americans but the Feministing ladies seemed incapable of even discussing the oppressiveness of the burqua in this most recent article and instead (as you stated) talk about "agents"!

Sorry the ladies at Feministing are apparently missing the boat that will take them on the fabulous ride of the 4th wave.

Your comment about sponsoring

Your comment about sponsoring a a one year Feministing internship in Afghanistan is cracking me the F*** up! Feministing and Feministe are all about peddling the "choice feminism," meaning that anything a woman chooses to do is "feminist approved", as long as she chooses it. The overlooked complication in "choice feminism" is that choices are always made in a context. So, while stay-at-home moms make that "choice" for themselves, their context is a society that encourages women to assume that gender role and discourages it for men. There are rewards for conforming to society's approved gender roles. Burqa-wearing muslim women make the "choice" to wear the burqa in the context of a society that hates women and will ostracize or kill them if they don't comply with the rules of Islam.

Sometimes you need sane women, like the ones on this blog, who are outside of a particular context, to see how totally screwed up it is. I say outlaw the burqa. There is not a damn thing good about it.

nodding to you spot-on

nodding to you spot-on comments! and i love your site as well! the 4th wavers are here! now let's get rid of the 90s 3rd wavers.

Feministing's Jessica has just defended her site under the Femisex Hero Worship story. She mentioned she is being recognized for the New Leaders Council's 40 under 40.
I just sent off an email urging The Council to re-consider Jessica. She is not helping women, and is dangerous to our progress. I pointed out that her Lipstick Feminism has been a spectacular Fail--the sexism women not suffer is worse than 5 years ago, when Feministing was founded.

Contact NLC
For questions or concerns about the 40 Under 40 Awards please contact:
Adam Borelli
NLC Executive Director
aborelli@newleaderscouncil.org
www.newleaderscouncil.org

The girls at Feministing and

The girls at Feministing and Feministe hated on Hillary and loved on Obama. Currently they continue to be like trained seals for Obama--he lies and says "coverings' are a choice and the Obotomations at Feminisitng and Feministe write that the burqa is a "choice" Muslim women make.

It would be funny if not so upsetting!

here is interesting comment

here is interesting comment from Uppity Woman talking about Obama's France hijab jab:

From unnamed press report: "a visit to Normandy earlier this month, President Barack Obama addressed France’s headscarf ban, saying countries handle such issues with their national sensitivities and histories in mind, before adding: “I will tell you that in the United States our basic attitude is, is that we’re not going to tell people what to wear.”

From Uppity:
Funny, our President can mind France’s business when it comes to hijab, but he has a hard time addressing Iran’s penchant for killing women for any perceived offense and blowing up protestors demanding freedom from religious slavery."
http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com/

nice point! Obama used women to play on male sympathy. And to make the Pro-bama anti-feminists in the U.S. take up his "choice" lie on mandatory headgear and burqas.
Note to Uppity: Fair use doctrine does require sourcing. Let's all stay in play and look pristine professional!

Swear to gosh it is like

Swear to gosh it is like these Carrie Bradshaw feminists at Feminisitng and Feministe are Babes for Burqas. We outlawed boys and men waking around our schools with their underwear showing and pants down to knees and it did not take agency from those boys. Reverse, if freed them from peer pressure to look like fools. They grumbled out loud and then they got over it in about a minute.

Jill at Feministe is about as cutting edge as cardboard. The change we'vebeen waiting for is the 4th wave!!!!!!!!!!!!

UPDATE: predictable:

UPDATE:

predictable: Feminsting is not in favor of a burqa ban, saying;
"Banning the burqa doesn't further women's rights - it limits them." and "...legally banning any of them erases all agency from Muslim women."

Poor Jessie, the writer, likes to use the word agency, b/c it makes her sound biggirllike, but the reality of lack of agency for women who must wear burqas is more than Jessie has ever witnessed. A few weeks in Afghanistan would fix her "agency" problem. The Burqa is a massive form of debasement for women, period. In that repressive culture it is a refuge from abuse, but that is NOT agency, it is fear and terror.

Feministe equally short-sighted, says:
"You don’t have to like the burqa to realize that outlawing it will have a hugely negative impact on women."

The writer, Jilly, calls the burqa a
"modest piece of clothing" as if it were a knee-length wool skirt. UHHGGH!

Banning people from walking around downtown Manhattan with a paper bag over one's head may seem like a bad idea to these silly girls, but the reality is, it takes the pressure OFF women to wear such garments.
Yes, temporarily there may be a lull in their outings, but that will last about a fortnight, until the men get tired of going for milk every day or taking little Amhed to the playground.

It was the same story with bans on smoking in bars--all the arguements that smokers would just stay home, the bar industry would suffer, it would be the end of commerce as we know it.
Well, this writer was involved in that early effort in California and guess what: exactly as we predicted: Bar business tanked for a week, started to climb, continued to climb and by 6 months: no disernable differences. This has been the story around the country, except now the no discernable difference comes much more quickly.
People go out, they adapt to rules put in place for the good of community. Women are part of the community. Banning the Burqa is not going to have lasting damage to women. On the contrary! It will free them.
Burqa requirements take ALL agency from women. Having a government lift the shroud will force change and forced change is not a bad thing: see civil rights laws circa 1900s. Swear to God, if a white male banned black women from "choosing" to sit at the back of the bus in 1930s Alabama, these silly girls would cry about taking the agency away from black women. Forcing them to sit up front--of all things! A trip to the nether regions of Afghanistan would cure so much of their spewy talk.
Burqas are a lot like smoking, very bad for those who partake. Obama has just taken on smoking in new tough ways; this removes agency from no one. Banning a burqu is like banning smoking from public places: a very good idea for public and private health.

You are smart.

You are smart.

Ditto that. The writers on

Ditto that. The writers on this website cut through the bull. No false hoopla. Realism.

it is like visiting a bizzaro

it is like visiting a bizzaro world at Feministe and Feministing. so-called feminists purporting the the burqa is a garmet of choice!
freaky odd!

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